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Author Topic: Why do you think a dog's value can be ascribed to a piece of paper?  (Read 25 times)
my_rescue_dog_know
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« on: April 29, 2011, 07:25:11 PM »

I am referring to any registration, etc.  Why, since is has been proven purebreds suffer maladies at a far higher rate than mutts, you can not reply, "Oh, AKC assures the pups are healthy" cuz, they Don't.

AKC does not not NOT check more than 5% of their puppy mills, which comprise the Vast Bulk of AKC registered pups.

I will agree, there are 5% of breeders out there to try to eradicate the health issues brought on by purebred's small gene pool.  Yes, those breeders DO exist, but, are small %, Very Rare breeder who does that.

So, i guess there are 2 reasons left for feeling an AKC pup is more valuable:
Money to become a BYB with that piece of paper
and/or
Feeling a superficial pride that somehow, that paper, makes that dog 'better'
and/or
feeling your dog has met the contrived beauty standards of a breed.

so why do YOU think a piece of paper makes a dog more valuable?
wow, stunned at the replies, many are ad hominem, some are outright viscous/petty. Name calling is grade school level of mentality, not a rational reply.

I have a purebred dog, btw. that has zero bearing on our bond, or on his value TO ME, his importance in my life. at all. He fascinates me, so so so much personality, could write a book on him, he cracks me up every day, every day...like a piece of love & sunshine running thru my world....nothing whatsoever to do with a peice of paper.....

very disappointing answers and mindsets so far...

I love him endlessly, our bond is beyond words, which IS EXACTLY why i am so confused how so many think a piece of paper is even remotely relevant to the value of a dog, someone even called a dog "a product"??
SEE, this is exactly what i mean, how can the paper make your dog more lovable, more interesting, more fascinating, at all?
---Makes ME question the kind of bond *you* have with your dog...
Sounds like they are "objects" rather than a belove
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UHave2BeKiddingMe_
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« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2011, 09:04:18 PM »

Well you missed an important point in your rant.

Its not just AKC papers, but AKC papers from a reputable breeder.

That is what makes the dog more valuable.

It means that this dog was carefully brought into this world with a lot of thought and planning.

The dog IS better then some dog that was created by "accident" or is a product of a BYB/Mill.

So AKC papers on a dog who is from a BYB or Mill is no better then some rescue/pound hound.
It is the same dog that winds up in pounds.  Pounds/Rescues are clearing houses for BYB and puppy mill dogs.   I would no more tell someone to get a dog from that source then I would tell them to buy a dog from the pet store or a backyard breeder.

However a dog with AKC papers from Titled, health tested parents definitely is a better product.

Last but not least, you lose credibility on something like this when you quote animal rights propoganda about mutts being healthier then purebreds.  A statement that is just not true by any stretch of the imagination.

ADD: Mickie, you are correct.
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Alex_Hinderscheid
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« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2011, 08:01:47 PM »

Honestly? A dog is a dog, in my opinion. A mere purebred certificate or guarantee should not make the animal any more expensive than already is.

Its a way to make money. Because a lot of richer people want their 'wonderful purebreds' with papers and papers.

I've also heard, when in dog shows, papers make the dog a better candidate to win? Idk, I've heard that though.

But either way, a dog is a dog, a big one, a small one, a purebred one, or a sheltered one. They all co-exist in the same world and are longing for love and an owner.
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leigh
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« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2011, 09:51:29 PM »

Why would anyone belive that the AKC would assure a healthy pup?  They are only a registry.  Breeders must offer you proof of healthy parents and pups-that's the only chance you have of "proof".

There are MANY good breeders in this country, and they are not that difficult to find.  

Where do you get the idea that purebreds are unhealthy, anyway?  The purebred pup I recently brought home has virtually no health problems known to the breed (hip dysplasia, which is very rare in the breed and cataracts are the only inheritable illness known in the breed).  

AKC pups are not more valuable.  WELL BRED pups are.  And it's up the the PURCHASER to do his homework, not the AKC.  By the way, only two of my dogs are AKC-the others are American Field (FDSB) and NAVHDA & SMCNA.  I guarantee that the ones that are NOT AKC are worth far more than the ones that are.
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Carpe_Jugulum
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« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2011, 10:34:56 PM »

ROTFLMAO....well,kid...the fing $2500CHECK in my hand pretty much PROVES that ,doesn't?
For a purebred CAREFULLY bred & whelped & raised pup from TITLED parents.....all the way back to the foundation stock.

Compare that to millions of dumped & killed mongrels? hhhmmmmm?

If you can't tell quality purebred from from junk-mutts,that's *your* ignorance & problem-not reality.
"Sour grapes",dear?
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Pia_Pow
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« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2011, 11:16:10 PM »

No. I don't think it makes a dog more valuable. There is no price to a life.
But people are like that y'know. It's wrong to think that way, but most people seem to do (?) I think they want to feel that they can brag about their 100% chihuahua, border collie, labrador or whatever. And feel sure that the dogs mother weren't his/hers fathers sister. Even though that is more likely with 'pure' breeds. People also like to take their dogs to beauty contests.
  And people read about dog types in books and stuff. It is not very much explanation about mutts there, is it?
 Sorry for the poor answer. I didn't read your whole post.

And P.S.: I REALLY don't think that pure breeds are better than mutts.
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Berner_Sennenhund
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« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2011, 11:24:04 PM »

Simple.. a piece of paper doesn't.

A 5 generation pedigree, however, does.

Being registered does not mean the dog is any more healthy than one from a BYB. All it means is that it's genes are not..diluted..by mixing. This is an important factor if you want a purebred dog, not just a mutt. There are several reasons for wanting a purebred, including breed characteristics, & working purposes.

It has NOT been proven that well bred (not simply pure bred) have more health issues than mutts..the incidence of health issues is likely about the same, with a few rare exceptions.

People that think AKC reg=healthy shouldn't be getting a dog of any kind because they obviously don't know enough about it to be a responsible owner. So, it's not fair to judge the responsible breed enthusiasts along with your run of the mill "I want one because it's cute" type of people.

As for pricing that goes into registered pups, if the only thing a breeder offers is registration with the AKC the dog should not be more than the price the local shelter charges, as there was no effort or cost going into the litter.  However if you get a purebred pup, that's from not just registered dogs, but champion titled working dogs, that have Pennhip, Cerf, heart, thyroid and vWd done, it's going to up the price because a lot more work, time and money is spent on these dogs to ensure they are even worth breeding,. Then you start getting into expanding the gene pool by doing things like using frozen sperm from a dog that died 20 years ago, flying out of the country for stud services etc.... that kind of thing is where the cost of a purebred registered WELL bred dog comes from.... just because a dog is registered purebred does not mean its worth breeding,, or even healthy.

As for "beauty standards"... no dog is bred for beauty alone, all of them have been bred to look a certain way for a purpose.  They are bred for sound conformation, ensuring that they move the way they should for what they were bred for, even coat length has to do with where they were originated and what they were bred to do.. for example a standard poodles ridiculous hair cut was actually functional.. it left hair over the joints keeping them warm so they didn't develop arthritis after going into freezing water all day..

Seems to me you might just be another mutt enthusiast, that doesn't know enough about the purebred world to actually understand it's purpose.
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_Love__is_a_GSD__P
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« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2011, 11:48:48 PM »

It has NOT been proven that mutts suffer less maladies. It IS proven that animals from TESTED breeding stock have a highly DECREASED risk for genetic defects being passed on. How many people breeding mutts health test? How many accidental litters come from health tested parents? That's right, NONE.

I DON'T think a dog's value comes from a piece of paper. I think a dog's value comes from it's lineage. 100+ documented years of working lined breeding in a GSD is going to make it valuable. NOT the AKC paper it comes with.

The simple fact is, to those that desire a purpose in their dogs, a purebred is usually more valuable BECAUSE of it's proven lineage. Purebreds just happen to come with papers.

I can NOT go to the shelter and get a random dog to use in personal protection work. 99% of dogs do NOT have the temperament it takes. End of story
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JenVT
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« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2011, 01:11:22 AM »

the piece of paper that makes mine more valuable is a little thing called a "contract".  it guarantees the genetic health of the pup.  I have done all the OFA testing, ensured that my dogs are conformationally correct and I guarantee them.  That makes them valuable.  If people want a mutt, they should get one, but I can also guarantee this- the people making mutts are not doing any genetic screenings or temperament testing and believe me, there are plenty of mutts out there with poor health and poor temperament.  I love my mixed bred dogs, but never in a million years would I make any more.  So, get over yourself.  When byber mutts start getting their genetic screenings done, then I'd consider raising my opinion of them. Until then, forget it.
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Loves_Dogs
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« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2011, 01:28:14 AM »

I love my dog, more than any piece of paper can measure.  He is a living loving part of my life, whose antics are endless, who cheers me up when i feel down, who gets me outside when i might feel like being lazy, who greets all of us with enthusiasm when we arrive home, thus putting us all in great mood as we come home....
He amazes me, makes me laugh, keeps me busy, has got me to meet all my neighbors, is great company, provides safety at night with his keen ears, is tons of fun to watch him figure things out/do things, gets us all going every day, and has even helped our family bond closer as we chat about him, laugh about him and play with him.

I am fitter, laugh more, have a better attitude, am outdoors more, remembered that i actually DO like walking in the rain, i've lost weight, i am stronger from all the excercise of living with a lively dog...i've learned a lot from my dog.

 i've got a softer heart from watching him recover from a terrible past....


We had hit hard times when we rescued this dog, and he has helped us cope much better, making us smile, laugh, and be outdoors walking or playing more.

NO piece of paper could measure that.

and it is so true, purebreds do suffer diseases and disorders at a far higher rate than mixed breeds.   Having an AKC paper does not, in any way whatsoever, indicate the dog will be healthy.
 
An AKC paper only means the dog's body is shaped the way the AKC says that breed should be shaped.  Nothing more.

I LOVE MY DOG!!!!
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